You know, a lot of people are just interested in, in building a company so they can make money and get out.

Killing Intel, I, I just had to resign from the Apple Board.

IBM decided they were going to enter the copying business in 1968.

I was one of the founders in, in that, the three of us all had the, had the founder's stock.

Well, I was born and raised in Rochester, New York.

So I, I knew something in a business sense about semiconductors and I appreciated their possibilities.